So hopefully nobody interprets my misgivings to this article as being a religious bigot. Jen is the author of many books and Bible studies, including Interrupted, 7, and Girl Talk. I know you will say, Well, thats Old Testament stuff. but the fact remains, God allowed it and at times commanded it. You are mischaracterizing the way orthodox believers view Jen. To learn more about the artists and discover more of their work:https://a ANC 12-23-22 Christmas Eve Eve Live Service, Ascension Day. Maybe. These people should NOT be leaders in teaching other Christians. In January of 2018, after coming under the umbrella of the United Methodist Church, we were gifted our beautiful new campus in the heart of the 04. All of us know in our soul when somethings wrong. Praise God David that He never left your side and He indeed had a better place for you. People arent aware. And when I say hugs, I mean THE KIND A MAMA GIVES HER BELOVED KID." And I visit quite a few churches around the place. Excellent thoughts regarding correction, Michael Frost. I must be very removed from online evangelical chatter. Burnt toast actually. That said, theres absolutely no need to try a person in the court of public opinion as they suss out their own responsibilities, sexual or otherwise, before God. Youre right-I have to say that it is God saying it-its all over the Bible- It is a pattern of sin emanating from our wicked hearts. Ive been reading it for many, many years. But the issue at hand is Christian teachers saying they heard from God through prayer that God looks at homosexual marriage the same as heterosexual-it just is blasphemy to say you heard such a thing. I think its important, when considering Matt 18s instruction, to keep in mind how Jesus treated gentiles and tax collectors. In like fashion, conservatives are trying to reason from Scripture why homosexual sex (as well as any sex outside of marriage, including LOOKING at another person with lust in your heart) is damnable sin but thanks be to God we are SAVED in CHRIST from it! Brett Trap has it going on. If Jen Hatmakers beliefs prevent one teen from committing suicide because they are gay then maybe all this public scrutiny is worth it. Jesus calls us to speak the Truth in LOVE (not in bloodthirsty fury). But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner not even to eat with such a person. He established the church with his then-wife, Jennifer Lynn Hatmaker, in 2008. Thanks for sharing Tara. Its all about whether you believe the word as literally Gods words or not. Of course homosexuality us wrong-its everywhere in the Bible. If he listens to you, you have regained your brother. Grow up, Hatmaker. Is she officially on staff at ANC in any paid or unpaid position? We see thru a glass darkly, weve all got mud in our eyes.that only Jesus can remove. It was also the official position of ANC. When Jen Hatmaker wrote a raw and heartfelt blog about the pain shes been through over recent attacks and posted it on Good Friday, she was taken to task for daring to identify her pain with that of Christs. Your response: It IS a Gospel issue! Stop making excuses. Frank, I have great difficulty taking seriously anything said by someone who refers to an eternal truth from the Bible. Seems so simple but we fail so often. I so agree with your point about how we handle disagreement in evangelicalism. Wow, thanks for that. People forget about Jesus chasing people with a whip. You just dont arrive at any conclusion that a Biblical marriage covenant is anything other than what Jesus said it was a man and a woman. Yours just ignoring the facts otherwise. [] women of privilege are protecting the last remnants of institutional prestige, and it looks bad. So happy to read that you have been able to move on to a far healthier, happier place and wish you the very best for the future. Both sides!). Whoever marries her that is divorced is guilty of sex sins in marriage.. Is that a strict standard? We have to look at all the Bible to draw our conclusions. Jesus spent most of his time hanging out with sinners, as should we. Where did Jesus say anything about polluting the environment, or armed robbery? This nonsensical complaining of yours is unbecoming. Jen Hatmaker and her husband, Brandon, pastor Austin New Church in Texas. I agree. Please, let me say that back to you and you tell me if thats what you said. Holly, let me guess: Youre heterosexual and married or in a relationship with a manmaybe you have kids. Especially when theyre called out. It was based on knowing I had no hope and believing Jesus was empowered and pleased to offer me new life, hope and fellowship with God. Im late to this article but I totally agree with you Sheri-its time we as TRUE Bible believing Christians start telling it like it is-and if these heretics-and that is what they are-go public-and any preacher is public really, whether online or preaching in their church-why then shouldnt we go public? ConcernedMeasuring.Locating However, one thing Jesus never did was condone their sin. Austin Miniatures Western Barn Wild West Cowboys Conte . Its the brutality of unhealthy religion. Hatmaker was the lead pastor of the church before resigning on Friday afternoon after admitting that he had an affair with another man while married to his wife (who is also openly gay). hhhmmmthat kind of thinking doesnt stand up too good. For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? If your motivation really is loving correction, its my view that that can only happen fully and effectively in relationship. An to be a Christ followed we have to die to our sin and live for Christ. New Releases THE QUIET GIRL. And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. Also, you can say it all you want, but monogamous, consensual, same sex relationships are neither sinful, nor addressed in scripture At. So where does same-sex marriage fall on this? Maybe if someone doesnt want to be attacked for their seemingly unorthodox views, especially when one is a public figure, they should keep their views privately. But if a person is claiming to be a Christian but keeps insisting that any sins pointed out in the Bible are not sin, and after being shown time and again that theyre wrong, then there does come a time when it says in the Bible Do not even eat with such a person. And maybe even a little doctrinaire? 17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. Be and example yourself, I think you should read the Bible: Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. Was the FMCUSA informed of the Hatmakers doctrinal change before it was publically announced on the internet? To me this is just one more instance of tolerance being a one way street. That includes naming the ones doing the teaching. But thanks be to God that Jesus has died for you and me despite our whining, our blasphemy, and our foolish and sinful ways. What has happened to jen is not great! Yet, I find myself sobbing in my back yard as I listen, hoping no one hears . Jesus reprimanded the woman at the well. The author thought he had the dream job: pastoring a megachurch. Otherwise there is need for concern. He told the prostitute to sin no more. The bible is our guide, our toolbox for seeking a closer walk with him. Put me off the internet for awhile, Ill tell ya.). We all know deep down whats right and whats wrong. The commandments are these: love God and love people. He chased people out with a whip and turned over the tables of the money changers. They are encouraging. Lets all do our best to avoid generalities. Shes just one person. But the feeding frenzy around Jen Hatmaker isnt that. Writers love to do this and then proclaim, Look! It was a very objectionable quote that seemed to edge true Christian sex toward BDSM and I felt I had to respond, so as per Matthew 18 I emailed him with my concerns. I do. As I said before, EVERYONE deserves respect and for people to be treated bad by parents or anyone else is just wrong-that is not Christian either. Knowing how to respect and honour others is quickly fading from the memories of Western Christians, who live in small, disconnected bubbles of thought, belief, and practice and seem to feel ok with that. Maybe try and figure out where your love went. Its often very ugly. Restore Groups (Missional/Incarnational Communities) are clusters of friends throughout the city in which community, communion, and mission unfold as a way of life . In our sins sexual and otherwise, God intervened! Most respectful comments disagreeing with her stance are deleted. Dude you are completely crazy and maybe you need to take. These couples rejoiced, and told everyone how the church didnt need a senior pastor, and how they were going to now lead the church for the future. Was the author referencing Jen as a wounded wolf? (Take a gander at the Sermon on the Mount if youre puzzled.) Notify me of follow-up comments by email. And if they give you an unsatisfactory answer, do you disfellowship them or consider them apostate? David I am so truly, deeply sorry to read your story. I am so tried WITH Vicky of the implication that those that support same-sex marriage are not serious about the Word of God. Why are other leaders so quick to forget this. I appreciate your post on this. I think most people on the other side do not want to intentionally be mean or attacking. Specialties. Enlarging Life I dont know the specifics on Jen, so just a general comment/question: When, in your mind, must a leader be called out for heresy or false doctrine? Long-time Austin resident and artist Eva Deli is showing new art work at the Bloomington Art Center Atrium Gallery. Its crazy to speculate what Jesus would or would not approve of if he didnt specifically speak about it. focusing on OUR being : It does seem there is a growing, insatiable desire in Christian circles to hurriedly name the next heretic, rather than lovingly correct or engage in healthy dialogue. Actually S. Tannous what Ben E. Calvert said is VERY biblical. Its a beautiful picture, private and evocative. Jesus does say if you love me you will keep my commands. But we have GRACE. I hope your waitisnt suggesting Jesus once chased people with a whip. But since when have Christian leaders proven to have a thoughtful handle on what is essential and what is secondary in theology, and what is truly peripheral? We tell local Austin news & weather stories, and we do what we do to make Austin, Round Rock, Georgetown, Dripping Springs, Bastrop and the rest of Central Texas a better place to live. Probably because such behaviour tends to be infectious; which is the feeding frenzy Mike Frost is talking about. Rae, hes not slamming anyone. And you know I respect you, right? He also confines marriage to man and woman by reiterating the words of Genesis 1 and 2 in Matthew 19. (In the latter, its called the Church Discipline passage & is about kicking people out. If outsiders hold together and build something new, it could be a good thing. In-person. Directed by Colm Bairad. Humanitarian. I never did post anything publicly about my concerns with her stance, but she never did message me privately so I could have a conversation with her. 1:44. This is a really big deal to members of the Seventh Day Adventist Church. Whats funny to me is, Christians like to hold up Jews as the ultimate legalists, but Ive been getting to know some Jews and theyre not, at all. Eternally wrong. 2 Brandon and Jennifer Hatmaker got married in 1993 Credit: Instagram When church leaders dont mind resembling the bad guys in the Gospels we have a problem. Sin has marred things, yes, but this is Gods original and only design of the marriage covenant. Sooner or later they start excluding their own, throwing those members they perceive to be recalcitrant over the wall to the wolves below. The person is not called out publically, they are called in in love. Sharing of various opinions leads to personal growth, if we allow it. Is this the only story out of the Bible that you know? Man, the irony. Showtimes. But its only Johns account that mentions the whip in 2:15. This should surprise no one, least of all the writer. We are all sinners, in need of Christs help every day, and the church should be helping people OUT of sin, whatever that sin is (including but not only just homosexuality) by prayer and loving guidance. Thats why you go first alone, then take a witness or two and finally tell the church. Furthermore, if your kids didnt believe that, would you be deeply disturbed or kick them out of the house? I agree with you, Mike. At the very least she deserves to be treated with dignity and respect. Jesus is in charge of me. HeckJESUS said it. The Scriptures are clear that believers of the Christian faith often speak in tongues. Lets treat evangelical as a label controlled by individuals, not as a measure of fidelity. He just wasnt talking about that. God comes first. Entire nationsmen, women, and childrenwere slaughtered this way. These are conversations for Christians about Christian doctrine, also. So many people do want to be christians because so ofter christians are brutal to one another. Prior to October of 2016 traditional Christian marriage was the Hatmakers official position. Its a difficult place to beI feel like Im losing my home. One isnt exposing anything hidden. Austin Butler, Angela Bassett, Viola Davis, 'The Banshees of Inisherin' and 'Better Call Saul' were among the surprise snubs from the 2023 SAG Awards. He ONLY allows it because, to quote Jesus, because of mankinds hardness of heart. So perhaps, you would be better off doing the same. Did FMCUSA release ANC because of their stance on gay marriage? They want to use their platform and were the bad guys if we dont disagree in a quiet, loving manner. I am never for calling names but when false teachings arise they must be dealt with. I do agree with your comment to Link above, and I most certainly believe that the place for confrontation is not social media or blog posts. It seems to be the only one you can quote here. The gospel is the gospel. But what if your kid asks if he can kill the neighbors punk kid because God did it. Will you tell your child he cant do that? However, most of my Presbyterian friends dont believe or practice this. Its not what you say but when and how you communicate it. Yes, thank you. Not only is it a revisioned and repurposed music venue, it is also home to Austin New Church, a variety of 12-step programs & support groups, an award winning after school care program, and a progressive and inclusive Latino faith community. This wealthy guy asks Jesus how he can gain eternal life. In the Dallas, TX area 7 Months ago, the church I founded as a church planter was destroyed from this kind of mentality (I graduated from Fuller Theological Seminary and have pastored for over 20+ years). When do people get to day sin is okay and not get reprimanded. Next up: ad hominen attacks on anyone that considers LGBT lifestyles anathema to a faith-driven life. I wonder if anyone on here is going to change anyones mind. But according to Bibles self-described marriage covenant, they are not marriage. The reason Jesus doesnt talk about a same-sex marital covenant is because such a thing doesnt exist in the Bible. He described evangelical Christianity devolving to the point where true believers are sniffing each others butts for doctrinal purity. JENNIFER and Brandon Hatmaker are known for their work with Austin New Church. Bear one anothers burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ. Specialties: Our dream is to have an increasingly positive impact on the South Austin Community. So, what does healthy religion look like? So I enjoy beer, whisky, and alcohol; but have never been drunk a day in my life (dont know what it even feels like to be drunk). How can you tell who is a false teacher and who is not (2 Peter 2:1-3)? The same thing happened to Vicky Beeching, here in the U.K (although a lot of her ministry was in the states so she was battered from My friend Brett Trapp pointed out several things that we have no unity on . It should NOT be saying sin is A-OK. Do you keep Saturdays holy? And thats the good news that saves lives and supersedes our sexual drives. Mark 10:6-9 NKJV Whenever I see Arthur Hackers 1892 painting, The Annunciation, I feel like Im intruding on an intimate conversation. My misgiving with this article is whitewashing false teachers, since the subject is not about how to reach and love on homosexuals, but on how to deal with false teachers. I understand the point and process of biblical feedback. Over the wall you go, Rob Bell. Science maybe? They dont view her as a sister. Shes toast in their eyes. I do not support condescension, intentional divisiveness or mean spirited attacks. Yet, I am still saved. Its just an error. He was talking about divorce, and the only reason he was talking about it in the first place was because the religious leaders were trying to fuck with him JUST LIKE THEY ARE DOING TO JEN HATMAKER. Clearly, the time they went public it is public. Thats why you lost another Millenial. Not to slam the person personally. I begged these people to stop and shared with them how it was affecting me and my staff. Its tiring to read all these comments urging us to root out heresy (as if Jen Hatmaker is a heretic). This is the Jesus I follow Have mercy, people. Selena Gomez and Hailey Bieber drama: A complete timeline of their feud This story has been shared 20,804 times. And it was allowed. And discribes a very good process. It certainly wasnt with venom, as has been seen in Hatmakers case. "Go and learn what this means: 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.' For I have not come to call the righteous, but. Brandon is a former pastor of Austin New Church (located in Austin, Texas, USA). I was super bummed out by most of the comments. Do you know anyone whos a part of the Churches of Christ? THE definition of Christian marriage is in the Bible, beginning in Genesis. I give God thanks that I am now the VP of a non-profit organization, where each day is a place of healing, care, and love. 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